What is Love?

Love in a thousand languages

Octaves of Love

Postby doug » Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:00 pm

Well, there you have it, from the horse's mouth:
...There are various kinds of love existing between humans, and also between spirits and humans...


This is an interesting message – both for what it says and what it doesn’t say. In it, we find a great definition of one kind of love: A bond of affection created or brought into operation by the Law of Attraction. This is a definition of love that any human can readily understand, and is frequently what we mean when we talk about love between humans.

But the implication in this message is that all human loves fit this description, and this, to my understanding, is not true. My understanding is that there are types of human love which transcend the Law of Attraction -- unless we say that a person could be "attracted" to all of humanity, or all of Creation. There also seem to be types of love which "fall short of" the Law of Attraction.

This brings us to the concept I mentioned in my last post: octaves of love. In my understanding, love seems to have different levels of manifestation, each level having its own definition. These various levels differ in such drastic ways that I'm not sure there's a single definition of love that could cover all the levels. These "octaves" range from the most basic biological attraction -- sex -- all the way to this sublime "thing" we call divine love.

Padgett's "bond of affection" describes one octave of love -- a very common one, though not particularly elevated. In Peck's discussion, this doesn't even rate as love -- he calls it cathexis. But while Peck was being an idealist, I'm trying to approach this question as a realist. This "cathexis," while certainly not the highest level of love, is perhaps the primary driving force in humanity, and so should not be excluded from our definition of love.

For the same reason, I think we need to include "sex" in our definition, simply because much of humanity considers sexual attraction as "love." In some popular music, the singer seems to know of no other kind of love. :| Rather than dismiss this as "unevolved," I want to acknowledge and honor sex as a vital part of human reality.

So, perhaps we could say that sex is the lowest "octave" of love, and that cathexis is the next octave above that. But then there are more octaves above these; and this, I think, is where the Padgett messages get foggy. They of course go on and on about how "eternal" the Divine Love is, and how happy it makes us, but beyond that, descriptions of the octaves beyond cathexis are a bit sparse.

And then (OMG)... we're thrown the curveball of Soulmates.

I, frankly, have given up trying to understand what soulmates are about. From my observations, it seems that the concept of soulmates is, for mortals, a source of confusion and self-deception, exclusively. We're told in the Padgett messages that knowledge of our soulmates is taken from us when we incarnate, and that this knowledge doesn't become relevant until both halves have left the earth life, and are preferably both well progressed in the spirit world. From this I surmise that the whole concept of soulmates is really beyond our comprehension. But for many people it seems this concept is almost the Main Attraction of the Padgett messages.

I can't blame them -- the concept of a romantic love that never dies would be the holy grail of every hopeless romantic that ever lived. But my guess is that the soulmate love is far more than any "romantic love" that we could conceive of. In other words, it's got to be more than just "endless cathexis."

Anyway, there you have a basic outline of the idea of "octaves of love." And I think this helps explain why love is so hard to define -- the definition seems to shift with each octave. The bass drum, the cello, the piccolo, the triangle: they all play "music," just very different types of music...

~
Last edited by doug on Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:31 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Octaves of Love

Postby Geoff » Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:22 pm

doug wrote:But the implication in this message is that all human loves fit this description, and this, to my understanding, is not true. My understanding is that there are types of human love which transcend the Law of Attraction -- unless we say that a person could be "attracted" to all of humanity, or all of Creation. There also seem to be types of love which "fall short of" the Law of Attraction.


Dear Doug,

I would agree. To me the highest form of love may exist in a "one way" style, where only one of the two parties is prepared to be kind and considerate of the other. This is when that individual still seeks the highest good for the other, but may in fact not like that other at all, on a personal level.

love,
Geoff
Love commands the universe. Man only resorts to control when love is missing.
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Re: Octaves of Love

Postby Amada Reza » Sun Jul 18, 2010 5:27 pm

doug wrote:From my observations, it seems that the concept of soulmates is, for mortals, a source of confusion and self-deception, exclusively. We're told in the Padgett messages that knowledge of our soulmates is taken from us when we incarnate, and that this knowledge doesn't become relevant until both halves have left the earth life, and are preferably both well progressed in the spirit world. From this I surmise that the whole concept of soulmates is really beyond our comprehension. But for many people it seems this concept is the Main Attraction of the Padgett messages.

I can't blame them -- the concept of a romantic love that never dies would be the holy grail of every hopeless romantic that ever lived. But my guess is that the soulmate love is far more than any "romantic love" that we could conceive of. In other words, it's got to be more than just "endless cathexis."


Dear Doug,

Thank you for sharing your ideas about the "octaves of love." Much food for the heart...

The soulmate discussion is a paradox. While the information Padgett channeled has brought comfort to this hopeless romantic, it seems inappropriate that a spirit (however well-intentioned) had shared this knowledge with a mortal. The romance between Helen and James Padgett has proven to be a great distraction to members of the spiritual communities that grew up around the Padgett messages, eclipsing the importance of the message of divine love.

I have the notion that consummation of soulmate love does not happen until both halves are possessed by the divine love and living in the spirit world. Love as the fulfillment of all law, and soul as our true identity, points to a soul-oriented spiritual path. The natural love development, even at its highest level, is subject to a spirit's intellectual pursuits and affections, and thus may not guarantee soulmate love to continue infinitely.

While love in any octave is sweet, divine love transcends the disappointment of unrequited love - a certain comfort in these uncertain times.

Love,

Amy
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Re: What is Love?

Postby Kay Ann Ray » Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:13 pm

Hello dear Divine Love Friends,

My computer hadn't been connected to the up-to-date forum since June, and I was busy with other projects (I'm trying to help construct a bathroom in my attic bedroom) so I didn't pay attention to the fact that I was lagging behind. Amy fixed it for me this morning. I love reading all the expressions of understanding, and not-so-much, about the definitions of love. I'm quite sure there will never be a, just one, definiton of love, because everyone living on earth and in the spirit world has had their own individual experiences and has their own understanding about what love means to them. I'm also quite sure that mortals and spirits' definitions of love will change as they continue their spiritual progression. I also feel certain that the definitions will definitely be different between a soul on the natural path and one on the Divine path.

I feel that my understanding about 'what love is' has become somewhat clearer over the last half of my lifetime. Let's see, I just turned 79, so half of that is approx. 39 years, that's how old Jack Benny always was. When I was 39, I had 3 children, a girl and boy twins, age 17, and another boy, age 15. That was the year we managed to encourage my ex-husband to move out of the garage, into a place of his own. He and I had abused alcohol and we had unpleasant interactions with one another for quite a few years. Some people learn life's lessons easily and with others it takes longer to get-it.

Even after starting to pray for God's Gift of Grace, and striving to develop my spiritual senses, it still took me several years to acept that I was, am, one of God's beloved children. Now I know that Love is the most important quality, aspect, whatever word one uses to describe it, 'Gift from God' that one can seek to obtain in their life. When I become anxious about some material problem, I can realize that it is not worth becoming upset about because it will be okay. Material evernt in life's experiences come and go, but they do not interfere with the soul's love nature. Unless I allow them to.

So it is up to me how I will react, repond to life's vicissitudes. I can be calm and have faith that God's laws are working in my life. They will bring me answers to my prayers and guide me in an upward direction because I kow that God's Love and governing laws will help me deal favorably with whatever comes my way. That's the way I feel about it.

God bless you, each and every one. I pray that you are having a fun and love filled day.

With love, your friend and sister in the Christ Spirit, Kathryn
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Re: What is Love?

Postby Dan » Tue Jul 27, 2010 7:16 am

Hi guys,
Been rather busy myself with work and family. Felt the need to re-connect here to my spiritual brothers and sisters. Regarding soulmate love, it appeared to be a bigger deal in the beginning when I first read the Padgett Messages 37 years ago. Since then I hardly think about it now. Someone here said that we are locked out of that knowledge as earthlings so it seems like a waste of time to think about it.

Regarding love I associate it now in relationship with God. When I feel love or send love to another, God is in the equation for me. Where there is God there is love and where there is love there is God.

Love you guys,
Dan
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Re: What is Love?

Postby Kay Ann Ray » Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:04 am

Good morning, Dan,

It's nice to see you here. I'm happy to allow myself to believe that the 'fixation on soulmates' can be overcome as one progresses in real Love. It seems to me that seekers-of-truth might be led astray when they observe someone proclaiming that this person is their "soulmate", then sometime later, that same person 'decides' that someone else is their soulmate. Human love is usually not a permanent condition of heart, due to the volatile conditions of life on earth. And because so many people have not developed self-love. Since love is an emotion which resides in the soul, and they have not made the effort to develop their spiritual nature, it's understandable why they have confusion about what love is.

If a person wishes to enjoy a life of peace, harmony, joy, fulfillment and love, they need to learn that it starts with themself. In my opinion, it helps to recognize that there are spiritual laws governing the universe, which are of a higher order than material laws. If a person seeking truth and love could just recognize the effects of one spiritual law, 'We reap what we sow' that could help inspire them to want to give their love, to be helpful and charitable. I feel it's good for people who are struggling with lack of self-acceptance, to know that it's never too late to pray for Mercy, forgiveness and Love. They can raise themselves up from a state of sadness and despair by receiving God's great Gift of Grace through humble, sincere and prolonged prayer.

That's my sermon for today. It sometimes feels discouraging to preach to the choire, but I do acknowledge that there are spirits who hang around us, and they might be interested in learning how to improve their condition, and progress to higher levels of awareness, consciousness and habitation. God blesses us, each and every one. These blessings reach to greated depths when we open our hearts and souls through earnest desires to know the truth and want to do God's will in our lives.

Sending my love to you and your loved ones, your friend and sister in Christ, Kathryn
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Re: What is Love?

Postby brother dave k. » Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:38 pm

Kathryn,

So good to see you posting again. i certainly felt the inspiration behind your post, whether that be the inspirations of your own soul, or that of the Angels. So very well said and clear.

Much love to you sister, and may all the Blessings of the Father be in and upon you.
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Re: What is Love?

Postby Dan » Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:52 am

Goodmorning Kathryn,

Well, I managed to wipe out a perfect post just written to you so I will re-write a more perfect one. How's that for upward thinking? I liked your post too and liked what you said about those who struggle with self acceptance (most of the world), that they can be raised up from their degradation through prayer for God's Love and Mercy. This has been my salvation too from my own false beliefs about myself.

Recently my youngest son Rory and I worked on a construction project and had a long commute everyday to work. One morning I felt moved by my love to share with him about the Divine Love and what it has done for me for the last 37 years. The seeds that we sow may someday become mighty oaks. I love you Kathryn. Please extend my howdy to Amy and your household.

Regarding your bathroom project, what phase are you at? Wish I was closer to help you. You're amazing Kathryn to tackle this project.

Dan
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Re: What is Love?

Postby doug » Mon Aug 02, 2010 12:56 pm

I’ve been reading a fun little book called The Wisdom of Insecurity by Alan Watts, where he observes that we humans often make the mistake of confusing words with the thing the words are supposed to represent. The main problem, he observed, is that reality is in constant motion, whereas words are essentially static. Words are our way of trying to freeze reality, in our attempt to make this apparently chaotic world more predictable, manageable, and permanent. And this would be nowhere more true than with the word love. To successfully define love is probably as futile as trying to “define” life.

This isn’t to say that we can’t attempt to define love or life or anything else; it’s just to acknowledge the inherent limitation in the exercise. As Watts observes, these words are merely conventions used to symbolize something, just as a coin is used to symbolize wealth. A coin may "be" wealth, but you can’t eat it.

So the only way to really know love is to experience it – no amount of words could suffice. And I suppose that this applies to each “octave” of love as well. We can talk about sexual love, romantic love, brotherly love, spiritual love, divine love, etc all we want, but the most our words can do is point in the general direction of what we’ve experienced. And perhaps, in so doing, we can inspire others to seek and experience these loves for themselves.

Dan wrote:Regarding love I associate it now in relationship with God. When I feel love or send love to another, God is in the equation for me. Where there is God there is love and where there is love there is God.


I suppose it’s in the higher octaves that words really start to fail us. At some point, as Dan suggests, the words start to merge. God = love = prayer = holy spirit. At some point, I’m not sure how much better I could describe Love than to say that it feels real good. To be, as the Angels say, “in the love,” is where I want to be…

~
Last edited by doug on Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What is Love?

Postby Kay Ann Ray » Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:25 am

Dear Divine Love Fellowship Friends,

Again I've been neglecting to visit this Forum. I could probably use the excuse that I've had more mini-strokes, which impair my thinking process, but that doesn't work very well even when I'm not having the strokes. I have been working on a Blog, when I feel 'inspired' to share some of the wonderful information received from Celestials. It feels a bit frustrating because there aren't many readers, that I am aware of. I did receive the 'still small voice impression' that someday people would become interested in what the anglels have to say about life in the spirit world. So I will go on faith that this is true and continue feeling inspired to write about what we've been learning from them over the past third of a century.

It is wonderful to know that day by day we can grow closer to God in our Love nature, and as a result of our spiritual growth, we will also improve in our physical health and well being. It seems to me that my mini-strokes are some kind of spiritual message, trying to tell me something which I'm not interpreting correctly. I will keep trying and never give up. Do all things with great love. Everyone reaps what they sow. Change is the law eternal. Pray to do God's will in daily living. God is Love and we can become Love when we become at-One with God.

God bless all my Divine Love friends, I pray you and your loved ones are having a fun and love filled day.

Your sister in the Grace of God's Love, Kathryn
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